Sunday, March 13, 2011

Mary, Mother of GOD, is No Doormat--Part One, Scripture

Something needs to be said.  I hope Scott doesn't mind too much, if I jump in here.

The Blessed Virgin Mary is definitely not a doormat.  She was and is a beautiful, obedient, servant of God, both the Father and her Son, the Son of God, Jesus Christ Our Savior, and then the Holy Spirit (after all she was there at Pentecost --Acts 1:14--and received the Holy Spirit at the same time the apostles did) whom her Son promised to all Christians.  Mary, the Mother of the Christ, can rightly be called the first Christian. 

Mary is the Queen mother.  I can tell you one thing that I know for sure about Hebrew royalty, they honored their mothers!  Jesus Christ is, after all, acknowledged almost universally by Christians to be the King of the Universe.  That would make Mary, His mother, Queen Mother.  The queen mother in Israel was not reverenced above the king, neither is Mary, the Queen Mother of Heaven reverenced above Jesus Christ the King of the Universe in the Catholic Church.  Remember King Solomon?  The Queen Mother, Bathsheba, was at his right hand in the palace.  Adonijah asked Queen Bathsheba to intercede for him to his brother, King Solomon.

Then Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, and the king stood up to meet her and paid her homage. Then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the king's mother, who sat at his right.  In I Kings 2, it says that she did intercede for her stepson, Adonijah.

"There is one small favor I would ask of you," [Queen Mother Bathsheba] said. "Do not refuse me." "Ask it, my mother," the king [Solomon] said to her, "for I will not refuse you."  So she said, "Let Abishag the Shunamite be given to your brother Adonijah for his wife."  "And why do you ask Abishag the Shunamite for Adonijah?" King Solomon answered his mother. "Ask the kingdom for him as well, for he is my elder brother and has with him Abiathar the priest and Joab, son of Zeruiah."   And King Solomon swore by the LORD: "May God do thus and so to me, and more besides, if Adonijah has not proposed this at the cost of his life.  And now, as the LORD lives, who has seated me firmly on the throne of my father David and made of me a dynasty as he promised, this day shall Adonijah be put to death."

In John 2, the Blessed Virgin Mary interceded for the wedding couple.

When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to Him, "They have no wine."  (And) Jesus said to her, "Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come."  His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."...Jesus told them, "Fill the jars with water." So they filled them to the brim. Then He told them, "Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter." So they took it.  And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine,...

Queen Bathsheba have the ear of her son the King.  Queen Mary, too, had the ear of her Son, sitting as she was near Him, the King.  Queen Bathsheba interceded for her stepson.  Mary, mother of our King, interceded for the wedding couple.  King Solomon said he would "not refuse [her]".  Jesus Christ, on the surface, seems to turn His mother down, but note her confidence that Jesus would do as she asked ("Do whatever He tells you.")  King Solomon took back his word to his mother; it was not politically expedient to grant his 'enemy', his half-brother, any favors, so he did not honor his promise.  Jesus did as His mother asked, without any promise, and miraculously turned water into wine--and not just any wine but the best wine. 


Let's approach this from another angle.  Here are some generally acknowledged prophecies about the Messiah's mother (iow, MARY):

Genesis 3:15: "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at His heel."

Obviously the "woman" will has a significant role in that her child (offspring) will "bruise" Satan's "head".  He made no such statement to the man, Adam.  He did not mention the savior without the way in which He would enter the world--through the womb of the woman.

Psalm 22:10-11 (9-10 in other versions)  Yet you drew me forth from the womb, made me safe at my mother's breast.  Upon you I was thrust from the womb; since birth you are my God.

This is almost universally seen as a messianic prophecy from one of the Psalms.  Why does this prophecy talk about the WOMB from which the Savior/messiah would come.  His mother's womb (twice), His birth from her, even the breasts that would feed Him.  Of course, His mother is significant; they don't just mention the Messiah, but also His mother.

Don't like that prophecy?  How about the old stand by, Isaiah 7:14: "Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name Him Immanuel."

It should be properly read in English as "the virgin shall be with child, and the virgin bear a son, and the virgin shall name him Immanuel."  The VIRGIN is prominent in this prophecy; she is the sign of the savior, she carries the Savior, bears the Savior, and names the Savior.  Seems pretty significant to me.

There is are at least Seventeen names for Mary, the mother of the Savior.
Woman:  Genesis 3:15; Jeremiah 31:22; John 2:4; John 19:26; Galatians 4:4; Revelation 12:1, 4, 6, 13-17.
Virgin:  Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23; Luke 1:27 (twice).
Mary:  Matthew 1:17, 18, 20; 13:55; Mark 6:3; Luke 1:26, 30, 34, 38, 39, 41, 46, 56, 2:5, 16, 19.
Mary His Mother:  Matthew 2:11; Luke 2:34.
His Mother: Matthew 2:13, 14, 20, 21; 12:46, 47; 13:55; Mark 3:31; Luke 2:33, 43, 48, 51; 8:19; John 2:5, 12; (John 6:42); 19:25, 26.
Mary the Mother of Jesus: Acts 1:14.
Mother of Jesus: John 2:1, 3.
Full of Grace: Luke 1:28.
Handmaid of the Lord: Luke 1:38.
Blessed among women: Luke 1:42.
Mother of my Lord: Luke 1:43.

Here are some other significant Scriptures that Catholics (and many, many non-Catholics) believe are types, or figures of Mary, the mother of God the Son mentioned in Scripture (some repeat from above) [List from Catholicbridge.com]:
•Genesis 3:15, 24:43-46 - Rebecca, 28:12 Jacob's Ladder, 30:13?,

•Exodus 3:11-12, 13:2, 13:14 (Magnificat), 15:20, 21, 26 (Magnificat), 25:8 Ark, 34:19-20
•Leviticus 12:2, 8 (Purification)
•Numbers 18:15 (Presentation)
•Judges 6:12, 15 (Annunciation)
•1 Samuel 2:1-10 (Magnificat)
•Isaiah 7:14 (Virgin Birth)
•Ezekiel 44:2 (Mary's perpetual Virginity)
•Mat 1:16, 18-25 (Mary to be found with Child), 2:11, 13-14, 20-23 (Maji flight to Egypt), 12:46-50 (Who is my mother?), 13:55 (is his mother not Mary?)
•Mark 3:31-35 (Your mother is outside), 6:3 (is he not son of Mary?)
•Luke 1:26-56 (Annunciation, visitation magnificat), 2:5-7, 16-19, 22, 33-35, 39, 41-51 (Nativity, shepherds, presentation, finding in the temple), 8:19-21 (Your mother outside) 11:27-28 Blessed is the womb that bore you
•John 1:14 (incarnation), 2:1-5 (Cana), 6:42 (Do we not know his mother), 19:25-27
•Acts 1:14 (Gathered in prayer with Mary), Gal 4:4 (God sent son born of woman)
•Col 1:15, 18 (first born, Head of body)
•Rev 11:19 (Ark in Heaven),12:1-17 (Woman clothed with the sun)


Besides Mary, the mother of God, what other person, besides the apostles themselves including Sts. Paul, Mark, and Luke, is mentioned so many times in Scripture?  A doormat?  I think not.  The woman, the mother of the Messiah was prophesied and honored through Scripture, and the Church.  She is no doormat.  She is His mother, and she is our mother.

All Scripture quotes from the New American Bible, special nod to this page on Mary in Scripture for names of Mary, and Catholicbridge.com for Mary in Scripture.

14 comments:

  1. I don't mind at all! Thanks CathMom5!

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  2. Part I


    C-Mom: The Blessed Virgin Mary is definitely not a doormat. She was and is a beautiful, obedient, servant of God,


    Monty: I should think that it would go without saying that my description of Mary as a doormat is not meant to disparage her in the least. I was simply making the logical connection that any lion trainer does when he teaches the beast that going through the hoop will net him a juicy morsel. Likewise, in the Catholic scheme of things, one must pass over the "doormat" of Mary to reach the keyhole of Jesus Christ.


    C-M: Mary can rightly be called the first Christian.

    M: Technically, they were "first" called Christians at Antioch in Acts 11:26.


    C-M: I can tell you one thing that I know for sure about Hebrew royalty, they honored their mothers! Jesus Christ is, after all, acknowledged almost universally by Christians to be the King of the Universe. That would make Mary, His mother, Queen Mother.

    M: Everyone should honor their mothers whether from Hebrew royalty or not. However, the RCC has blown her blessed person all out of proportion by lavishing on her titles that are completely idolatrous. We are told that Mary is "the divine aquaduct", "celestial ocean", "the ladder to Paradise", "Queen of Heaven", "Co-Redemptrix", "Mediatrix", "Dispentrix" , "Ajutrix", "Cooperatrix" ad nauseum.

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  3. Part II


    C-M: The queen mother in Israel was not reverenced above the king, neither is Mary, the Queen Mother of Heaven reverenced above Jesus Christ the King of the Universe in the Catholic Church.

    M: I disagree. When it gets to the point that the Pope prays to Mary, "offering himself" to the Father of Mercies, "hiding and covering our poverty with YOUR MERITS and those of your divine Son." (putting the merits of Mary first and Jesus second) we may know that we are dealing with another gospel. (Insegnamenti, 5/12/82).


    Need it be said that the very mention of being covered with the merits of Mary is unthinkable? It must always be going back to Christianity 101 with Catholics, ever trying to convince them that the merits of Jesus Christ that cover us are quite enough.


    C-M: In John 2, the Blessed Virgin Mary interceded for the wedding couple. When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to Him, "They have no wine."


    M: So what? Mary did not intercede or "request" anything from Jesus---so your attempt to make her our official intercessor (by co-joining the example of Solomon not refusing a request from his mother) is grasping at straws. We read that the miracle at Cana was His FIRST public show of power (Jn 2:11), so it would be wrong to suppose that she had any idea that Jesus was capable of turning water into wine, let alone being able to do anything miraculous, which, up until this time, He had NOT done. Her comment was simply an observation, along the line of "the ducks are in the river".

    The fact is that in each of the 4 places Mary is mentioned in conjunction with Jesus, HE REBUKES HER (the boyhood incident, the Cana incident, Luke 11:27 and Matt 12:46). It is ever so obvious (for those who have eyes to see that is) that these rebukes were included in Scripture for a reason! They are a direct result of the foreknowledge of God, in that He knew VERY well that future generations were going to run a muck.
    One rebuff would have been enough, but FOUR TIMES, shows how serious the grand delusion would become---and we learn from this to see how all RC attempts to run around trying to find anything that would buttress marian claims, are fruitless.

    C-M: Psalm 22:10-11....This is almost universally seen as a messianic prophecy from one of the Psalms.....Don't like that prophecy? How about the old stand by, Isaiah 7:14.

    M: I prefer the prophecy in Ps 69:8 which reports that Mary had other children, which drowns out all your other alleged "proof-texts", and exposes RCism as counterfeit christianity. That Christ would become a stranger to his mother's children is fulfilled perfectly in John 7:5. The phrase "my mother's children"" is utterly unheard of in the literature of yesterday and even today, and can only refer to the unique situation that only the Savior found Himself in. And we know that 69:8 MUST be directly attributed to Christ because 69:9 is directly attributed to Him in John 2:17!

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  4. From my post: "The Blessed Virgin Mary is definitely not a doormat. She was and is a beautiful, obedient, servant of God,..."

    Monty [responded]: I should think that it would go without saying that my description of Mary as a doormat is not meant to disparage her in the least.

    Cathmom: I don't agree that is why I felt I needed to say something. In today's jargon, a doormat is someone who is not only not respected, but stepped all over. I think we both know that is the sense it can and was perceived from your smart aleck remark about the mother of God.


    Monty [cont] I was simply making the logical connection that any lion trainer does when he teaches the beast that going through the hoop will net him a juicy morsel.

    Cathmom: Huh? What a strange mixture of metaphors! Now what she's a hoop?

    I believe you meant it as the disrespectful statement that it was.

    Monty [cont]: Likewise, in the Catholic scheme of things, one must pass over the "doormat" of Mary to reach the keyhole of Jesus Christ.

    Cathmom: That is definitely NOT the "Catholic scheme of things." The discussion was that Jesus is the Door to Heaven. He opened the way for ALL of us to reach Heaven, including His mother. If you must put her there with Christ the door, then she would the mistress of the house. The one that stands by the door, and greets and welcomes her Son's guests as they come in to meet the king. No one wipes their feet on the hostess.

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  5. From my post: Mary can rightly be called the first Christian.

    Monty's response: Technically, they were "first" called Christians at Antioch in Acts 11:26

    Cathmom: So what? What has that to do with the price of tea in China? "Technically" the word Trinity appears NO WHERE in Scripture, yet the vast majority of Christians use that word to describe God.

    The definition of "Christian" is one who follows Jesus Christ and His teachings. Mary, His mother, knew who He was and believed in Him even before He was born. She followed Him in His ministry, was there when He suffered and died, and was there at Pentecost with the rest of the disciples receiving the Holy Spirit in the upper room.

    I stand by my statement. St. Mary can RIGHTLY be called the first Christian.

    [Post comment deleted for space]

    M[onty's comment]: Everyone should honor their mothers whether from Hebrew royalty or not.

    Cathmom: If you agree with that, why would you denegrate Christ's mother and believe the Jesus Christ doesn't mind? If a buddy of yours insulted your mother and called her names, that would be perfectly fine with you and you would remain the best of friends, I'm sure. Really? One really needs to think about that carefully before continually insulting God's mother.

    [Monty cont.] However, the RCC has blown her blessed person all out of proportion by lavishing on her titles that are completely idolatrous.

    Cathmom: That is your erroneous opinion and your entitled to it.

    [Monty cont] We are told...

    Cathmom: No "we" aren't. Catholics and many, many other Christians who respect and honor Mary believe these things about the Blessed Virgin Mary. You as an anti-Catholic, protestant are neither told this nor asked to believe anything. You could have the Christian charity, however, to let us believe in the truths of our Faith without insults from an outsider who doesn't know what they are talking about.

    [Monty cont] ...that Mary is "the divine aquaduct", "celestial ocean", "the ladder to Paradise", "Queen of Heaven", "Co-Redemptrix", "Mediatrix", "Dispentrix" , "Ajutrix", "Cooperatrix" ad nauseum

    Cathmom: As a convert, some of these are new to me, if they are true. I plan to get to St. Mary's titles of honor in another post.

    The only thing "out of proportion" is the protestant knee-jerk reaction to the honoring of God the Son's mother.

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  6. From my post: The queen mother in Israel was not reverenced above the king, neither is Mary, the Queen Mother of Heaven reverenced above Jesus Christ the King of the Universe in the Catholic Church.

    M[onty responded]: I disagree.

    Cathmom: That's your erroneous opinion and your entitled to it.

    [Monty cont] When it gets to the point that the Pope prays to Mary,...

    Cathmom: Neither the pope nor any other Catholic prays "to" St. Mary in the same sense as we pray to God. In fact, I wrote a post about that very subject on my own blog. I'll have to post one here on CathApol.

    Ever heard of Shakespeare? When he had one of his characters say, "I pray thee tell me...", he was certainly not having one character worshipping another. Pray was and still is in Catholic literature used in its rightful definition:

    transitive verb
    1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pray

    If you have ever asked ANYONE to pray for you--you have prayed TO them. IOW, we request her prayers for us. No matter what erroneous propaganda you've read or listened to, you are wrong to believe that we worship St. Mary, or any other Saint for that matter. We worship Jesus Christ, and He with the Trinity.

    [Monty cont] ..."offering himself" to the Father of Mercies...

    Cathmom: The point being that the pope is offering himself to "the Father". Most Christians feel the humility of our smallness as compared to God and need all the help we can get to face that "fear of God" that Scripture says all should feel.

    [Monty cont.] ..."hiding and covering our poverty with YOUR MERITS and those of your divine Son." (putting the merits of Mary first and Jesus second) we may know that we are dealing with another gospel. (Insegnamenti, 5/12/82).

    Cathmom: Ever heard of saving the best for last. Obviously you know nothing about social honors. The general never enters the car first, the king never enters the palace first, the guest of honor is never the one to announce himself. St. Mary and her virtues are mentioned first BECAUSE they are LESS important than her Son's, not more. If you can't see that, there is nothing I can do to convince you.

    I will pray that you will have a softening of your heart to see the truth and not the propaganda you've been taught.

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  7. I may get to the rest later, but I am very busy right now. I'll try to get back to it.

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  8. C-M: You could have the Christian charity, however, to let us believe in the truths of our Faith without insults from an outsider who doesn't know what they are talking about.

    M: Obviously, God hates all types of false doctrine, and if I think, based on the evidence, that it is indeed false, I would be under no obligation to always and in every way "act charitably" to something that is endangering someone's soul.
    You are proposing that humans be literally stripped of all their emotion; a ludicrous thought since we were all made in God's image, and HE, I should remind you, did get angry on more than a few occasions. I trust you recall that He destroyed every single soul on this earth except 8 people in a boat during the flood?


    C-M: The only thing "out of proportion" is the protestant knee-jerk reaction to the honoring of God, the Son's mother.

    M: My reaction is biblical and quite appropriate. Underlying your response is a total and utter dissatisfaction with the word of God alone, and your furious attempts to co-mingle your traditions with it; resulting in NULLIFYING it altogether (Matt 15:6). For example, God promises to be with us during the hour of our death (Ps 23:4). Yet you people teach that "we are to give ourselves over to her now, in the Today of our lives...at the present MOMENT, and to surrender the hour of our death wholly to her care" (#2677).
    Are you kidding me? Catholicism has tuned her into a mortician goddess.

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  9. C-M: Neither the pope nor any other Catholic prays "to" St. Mary in the same sense as we pray to God.

    M: Here come the excuses, denials, exceptions and syrupy special pleadings.
    I emphatically reject your explanation from take-off that neither the Pope or any other RC does not pray to Mary "in the same sense as to the Lord". The catechism advocates songs be sung "TO" her (#2678), and, "We can pray with and TO HER" (#2679).
    Therefore, the apologetic argument that Catholics are only "speaking" Shakespeare like he did when he wrote "I pray thee, tell me", is nothing less than obnoxious.


    C-M:
    transitive verb
    1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pray

    If you have ever asked ANYONE to pray for you--you have prayed TO them. IOW, we request her prayers for us.

    M: I would argue that this false line of demarcation
    A) is no where indicated in the catechism, such as in, "When we pray TO her..." (#2679), that is exactly what they mean.
    B) historically unverifiable.
    C) Would take 9 out of 10 Catholics by surprise if you were to start "quoting Shakespeare" to them.
    D) is impossible for Catholics to put into practice, always having to remember to "pray".....but not really to.... "PRAY".
    E) By virtue of the fact that, according to you, you are only "praying to them to ask FOR their prayers", is indeed petitionary prayer, nonetheless, which is precisely the same mindset we are in when we invoke God.
    "Give us your blessings, Lady, our most beloved Mother!" ("Insegnamenti, 5/12/82) does not at ALL sound like someone is merely asking her to pray FOR them. Neither does directing young people to entrust their very lives TO her (Audience,5/2/79).
    So singing songs TO, asking blessing FROM, and entrusting their human destiny INTO her hands, crosses the line into idolatry and are only a few examples out of a thousand that renders void your Shakespearian explanation.

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  10. Allow me to interject...

    I understand what Monty is trying to say, but he cannot avoid the FACT that a "doormat" analogy is one of disrespect. If he has any Christian charity he will withdraw said analogy. Now one more appropriate may be to say the Blessed Virgin Mary is like the threshold over which we must cross to enter through the door of Jesus Christ.

    >> C-M: Mary can rightly be called
    >> the first Christian.
    >
    > M: Technically, they were
    > "first" called Christians at
    > Antioch in Acts 11:26.

    Cathmom5 was not speaking "technically" but "rightly." Since the Savior of the world was first made known to her, and she was THE FIRST to ACCEPT and HAVE FAITH in Him - then she is RIGHTLY called the First Christian.

    More later...

    In JMJ,
    Scott<<<

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  11. CathApol said: If he has any Christian charity he will withdraw said analogy. [more appropriately] it may be [said] that the Blessed Virgin Mary is like the threshold over which we must cross to enter through the door of Jesus Christ.

    Monty: Wonderful! Superb! I couldn't agree more. Call her a "threshold", a "stepping stone", the "plank" one walks up to get into the ship, the "bridge" over troubled waters----anything you want. The fact remains that, "no one comes to the Father except through ME"; and no where are we told that no one comes to Christ except through His mother; "there is only ONE mediator between God and man", and "I AM the Way". Many more examples could be listed, but oh how sad it is that you choose to latch on to an ignominious "threshold" concept that the entire New Testament does not even hint at. RC theology is always and forever using the most over-inflated language that is indicative of rank heresy to which she is addicted. For example, Pius XII said that she, "OFFERED Him on Golgotha to the Eternal Father together with the holocaust of her maternal rights and motherly love..." ("Mystici Corpus", 1943).
    These brazen and wholly unwarranted tributaries to Mary utterly exposes the heretical nature of the system itself. And in further response to your comment above, if YOU have any "charity" for the health of your soul, you will withdraw YOURSELF from these plethora of lies, and come to the true Christ of the Bible.

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  12. Monty: Wonderful! Superb! I couldn't agree more. Call her a "threshold", a "stepping stone", the "plank" one walks up to get into the ship, the "bridge" over troubled waters----anything you want.

    Scott replies:
    I'm glad you agree.

    The fact remains that, "no one comes to the Father except through ME";

    Scott replies: And I agree with you, Monty.

    and no where are we told that no one comes to Christ except through His mother;

    Scott replies: Where have I said this?

    "there is only ONE mediator between God and man",

    Scott replies: Catholics AGREE with you here, Monty!

    and "I AM the Way".

    Scott replies: Full agreement!

    Many more examples could be listed,

    Scott replies: Many more places of agreement?! I'm quite sure there are many more examples of this! However, based upon your tone, I do not believe agreement was your intent.

    Godspeed to you, Monty.

    In JMJ,
    Scott<<<

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  13. BTW, Monty, by agreeing with me, were you also withdrawing the "doormat" analogy? You seem to be, but I would rather not put words in your mouth.

    Scott<<<

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  14. Mary, Mother of GOD, is No Doormat--Part One, Scripture"..is very fruitful it can be used to understand the value of MotherMary in every Christians life...thnkyou so much..
    God bless...

    ReplyDelete

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