Scott: Let's not try to use "typical" or "stereotypical" comments, if we can avoid them. Such are polemical and rarely fruitful.
Monty: If the "typical" refutation of Catholic doctrine is squarely based on the sacred Text, I am not ashamed to use it, and that you choose to label it "stereotypical" will not diminish the force of its impact.
The "force of impact" is quite diminished when you resort to stereotypical commentary instead of intellectual dialog.
S: You seem rather offended by "to Jesus through Mary" - which is wholly another topic and I will address that in a separate blog article.
M: I hardly think that since the majority of Catholics think it necessary to go THROUGH Mary to get TO Jesus, is somehow "another" topic. For you perhaps it becomes "another" issue, but that's because it so flagrantly violates the Scriptures--and you are caught between a rock and hard place by trying to conform the Bible with out-of-control RC piety. I would certainly hate to be in your position.
I am quite fine "in my position" for I do not claim it is "necessary" to go through Mary to get to Jesus, but it IS PRACTICAL! The Word made Flesh did so through Mary, the Mother of God. She didn't stop being His mother just because He is also God! I believe Jesus loves His mother and thus anything she petitions Him for, He is inclined to listen - as witnessed in the first public miracle of our Lord at Cana.
S: You're putting down your "immaculate foot" over a non-issue to this discussion.
M: Quite a stubborn person, you.
I've been called worse - but being stubborn for the truth is not a negative.
M: I am certainly not being unreasonable by taking my thermometer and examining the spiritual temperature of Catholics who use Mary as a doormat to get to Jesus.
It has been explained to you, quite politely, how referring to the Blessed Mother as a "doormat" is insulting, why do you persist in insulting/inflammatory language when such is not necessary and alternatives have been offered to you?
The temperature reading says they are running a high fever as it regards that issue, being just as wrong as what we find in the catechism (#2677), which would have us believe that we must entrust "all our cares and petitions to HER"; a bold and bombastic contradiction to 1 Peter 5:7: "Casting ALL your care on Him, for He careth for you."
Monty, you don't seem to understand the concept that cares cast upon Mary ARE cast upon Jesus! Again the "To Jesus through Mary" posting is in the works, so this topic will be addressed more directly there.
S: Jesus IS the Door to Heaven, NO ONE enters Heaven except THROUGH HIM!
"VATICAN CITY, SEP 9, 1998 (VIS) - At today's Wednesday general audience in St. Peter's Square, the Pope spoke on the theme of The Spirit of God and the 'Seeds of Truth' in non-Christian Religions. The 'seeds of truth', said John Paul II, are 'the effect of the Spirit of truth operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body', the wind 'which blows where it wills'. The Holy Father explained that in all authentic religious experiences, the most characteristic manifestation is prayer. ... Every true prayer is inspired by the Holy Spirit, Who is mysteriously present in the heart of every person. Through the practice of what is good in their own religious traditions, and following the dictates of their consciences, members of other religions positively respond to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even though they may not recognize Him as their Savior."Needless to say, your attempts at insisting that Christ is the ONLY way into paradise---- but who, according to the RCC will allow many in who could not care less about His holy person, makes your argument quite disingenuous. After all is said and done, it doesn't make Him a door at all, but a CRAWLSPACE, where Muslims---(experts at being on their knees 3 times a day), get to slip past Him "by following their own religious tradition" which rejects Jesus Christ no less than 15 times in the Koran!
Scott replies: Monty, one day you will learn (I hope) that YOU are not the judge of ANYONE! You need to get yourself out of that Judgment Seat, which is Christ's - and His ALONE! The Catholic Church, if you read official teachings correctly, does NOT say that those not IN the Catholic Church WILL get to Heaven, but only says MAY get there if the reason they are not part of His Church is due to no fault of their own - there are many statements on Invincible Ignorance which the Church ALLOWS for GOD to be THE JUDGE. When the Church says someone MAY be saved... etc. it would not be wise to take that as a caveat and THINK you are thusly saved. No, look further and see where the Church teaches who WILL be saved! Those who DO His Will and OBEY Him, those WILL be saved! If you are willfully remaining outside His Church... well, that's going to be between yourself and God Almighty. Again, one who is HONESTLY and DILIGENTLY seeking the TRUTH will not be content with a "maybe" statement.
Monty continues: We also notice the ridiculous statement that the Holy Spirit is "mysteriously present" in everyone (an utterly unbiblical premise), and the word "mysterious" always and forever being summoned into service to dodge all of the RCC's "mystifying theocracy" without any explanation or scriptural proof.
Ridiculous? I'm so sorry that you do not seem to understand what the "Mysterium Fidei" (Mystery of Faith) is all about. Monty, Faith IS a mystery! If it were not, it would not be "faith" but "proof." The Christian Faith is just that - it is based in FAITH - and for those who have faith it is wonderful and confirming; but for one who lacks faith, they will scoff and ridicule those who have faith. I pray that God grants you faith, TRUE faith, that you might be comforted in Him and in the mysterium fidei - which is the REALITY of His Presence in the Eucharist. All that is necessary "proof" for one who has faith is Jesus' own words, "This IS My body."
Monty errantly contiues: No wonder God calls Rome, "MYSTERY Babylon" in the book of Revelation!
Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17-18 would more aptly be pointing to something like the United States, whereas the woman in Revelation 12 would more aptly be pointing to the Church. Again, Monty, consider that "mystery" and "faith" go hand in hand, and to accuse the Catholic Church of falsity based upon the use of "mysterium fidei" is quite simple minded and, well, not well thought out.
S: It seems to me, just expressing my personal opinion here, that you cannot accept that a Catholic believes that Jesus REALLY IS A DOOR. Remember, THAT is the matter we're discussing in this article which you are attempting to divert to a discussion on Mary. THE POINT is that Jesus REALLY IS A DOOR just as the Eucharist REALLY IS HIS BODY AND BLOOD!You seem to be avoiding that point.
M: Oh come now. Jesus is not "really" a door in the same sense as your belief that the Eucharist "really is" His body and blood. The former is obviously figurative, the latter, literal.
Well Monty, Jesus really is a door! He REALLY is the entry into Heaven, and no one gets to Heaven without going through Him. Likewise, the Eucharist REALLY IS His body and blood. It is not merely symbolic as you seem to think. "This is..." is not symbolic language.
Again, may God grant you faith.