Sunday, February 05, 2012

James White on John 6 Open Challenge

In a discussion at BeggarsAll the subject of a Purgatory Debate between James White and Tim Staples came up.  So I looked for the debate.  It turns out it wasn't an all-out formal "debate" - but Staples was a guest on White's "Dividing Line" webcast last year (which will now cost you $1.50 to hear it!)  Similarly, I was on White's program eleven years ago and while it used to be free, it will now cost you $2.25 to hear it.  When it was free, I also made a copy available on my site - for free - I'll see if I can still offer that.  Anyway, what struck me was the opening comment on White's blog concerning the alleged Purgatory debate:
Don't hold your breath for the invitation for me to be on Catholic Answers Live to discuss, oh, "Does John 6 Teach the Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Eucharist," (I'd do it in a heartbeat), but today we had Tim Staples on the program for 90 minutes to debate 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 and the doctrine of purgatory.
Wait!  "Does John 6 Teach the Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Eucharist" was SUPPOSED to be the topic of my "debate" or "appearance" on his webcast!  THAT was the topic I was prepared to discuss!  My debate skills, however, were not keen enough to bring him back to the subject I THOUGHT we were to be discussing - and he took us down a path of Calvinism and "Who Is Drawn?"  I have a few responses to THAT question, and even during that program from January 13, 2001 - while I would not say I "won" that debate, I believe, even unprepared to discuss White's agenda, I held my own against him - and have offered him questions on the subject which remain unanswered.  In the "post debate/discussion" I believe I have "won" (especially since White has not responded to the post debate/discussion, and in debate silence lends itself to consent), but you can judge for yourself here:
Open Challenge to James White:   
"Does John 6 Teach the Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Eucharist?"  
You said you do that "in a heartbeat" for Catholic Answers, well how about me?  However, instead of on your turf (your program, and live debate where I am among the first to admit, you're good, even VERY good at live debate), I propose a WRITTEN debate, and we can conduct the 'Cross-Examination" phase live - either in yours or my IRC chat channel - or even on your Dividing Line webcast.  In the written medium the playing field is a bit more leveled, but I will consent to PART of this debate being "live."  How about it James?  (I'm not holding my breath).



  1. I think the whole "who is drawn?" debate is easily settled by noting the verb tense of the terms. Since many of the key parts are in the present-tense, this indicates the action is taking place in 'real-time' and avoids any fallacies drawn (no pun intended) by incorrect appeal to the past tense.

  2. But in this chaplets, "who is drawn" is immaterial. That was the 2001 discussion.

  3. Silly auto-correct... the previous comment should read, "But in this chapter, 'who is drawn' is immaterial."

    However, I DO discuss this in the following post:

    I would be happy to continue the "who is drawn" discussion with you there.

  4. It's going on four years now, and still no response from White. I'm glad I wasn't holding my breath!


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